posted 10-05-2001 06:02 PM              

As a matter of historical interest, Jody informs me that a FLAIL is farming implement used to separate wheat from chaff. The term later morphed into the word FRAIL and was used as a pejorative term by banjo players to refer to someone who is just whipping away at the banjo.

c.u.
steve baughman

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Can we therefore assume, Steve, that you plan to modify your Forum Profile to list your occupation as that of a "Flailing Lawyer"?

DH

posted 10-06-2001 08:12 AM               

I looked up "flail" and "frail" to see if there was any reference to music at all.

Of the many meanings given, one of the "flail" definitions was the farm implement that has been mentioned. Nothing about banjo or any stringed instrument playing. The same with "frail", although I did learn that one of its meanings is a quantified unit of raisins.

posted 10-09-2001 10:34 AM               

There are a whole range of tools that are necessary to really fly with frailing. I'm still discovering/learning them myself. Please keep me posted on any discoveries that y'all happen upon.

posted 10-10-2001 03:43 PM               

The first note in the second measure is B, played open on the second string. The next note is A, played on the second fret of the third string.

My question is how, with your fingers, you got from the second to the third string. I can read music, but, admittedly, haven't looked at guitar tablature for quite some time. There's a mark above the "2" on the second note of the second measure. My guess is that you are indicating that the index finger first strikes the second string then the third. Am I correct?

If I am correct, then I think I've found a home in the frailing world for my middle finger if the "down brush" is played with my ring finger. Using the ring finger for the third beat of a 4/4 measure seems to lend more flexibility to what is happening on the melody during the second beat, because one doesn't need to depend on hammer-ons or the same finger (index) striking two strings back to back.

posted 10-10-2001 06:39 PM               

What is happening here is actually a "left hand filler slap" (aka a "tap"), whereby you pluck the second string open (B note) and then WITHOUT plucking the third string you hammer your left hand finger down on the third string at the second fret for your A note.

It's like a hammer on, but you actually don't pluck the 3rd string.

Filler slaps are a very important of frailing guitar as your melody note will often fall OUTSIDE of your right hand basic frail. In order to avoid disrupting your groove you've got to create the note with your other hand. If you have the book, check out the filler slap exercises and practice them over and over. If you don't have the book, work on that second measure of Shady Grove until it hurts. Important stuff if you want to nail the frail.

Very glad you mentioned this.

BTW, Shady Grove is WAY easier in Orkney Tuning.

posted 10-11-2001 04:51 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by frailerdude:

BTW, Shady Grove is WAY easier in Orkney Tuning.

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I'm new to this forum. I joined mainly because of this thread. I figured if I could learn for frail the guitar maybe I could get some mileage out of my guitar instead of letting it gather dust. I've played frailing (clawhammer) banjo for a long time.

The Orkney tuning is just right for Shady Grove. In fact it is the exact tuning that you would ordinarily use on banjo escept that it would probably be capo'd up to play in A. four long strings of a 5-string are often tuned DGCD for tunes such as Shady Grove. It is often referred to as modal tuning. For me, though, it's somewhat awkward to try to play major key tunes in that tuning because I've spent a lot of years playing in other tunings. The tuning CGCGCE is the equivalent of what banjo players call double C tuning. Only one string different from Orkney. For banjo frailers it's as common as DGBD, the standard tuning for bluegrassers.

I'm keeping my eye on this thread for further tips. The version of Robert's Seranade is fabuluous. That's what made me want to try this stuff on the guitar.

Steve K

posted 10-11-2001 10:21 AM               

Actually, playing in major keys in Orkney is quite easy, (although I can understand that you're not used to it.) For instance, just play the FOURTH fret of the third string instead of the third fret throughout Shady Grove and you've got a major version of the tune.

Glad you're getting back into guitar.

As to Village Idiot, cool, you're on your way.

One disclaimer, the MP3 Robert's Serenade at the AG lesson book referred to above, is actually a hybrid frail. I'm in and out of the delayed thumb thing as needed. So a part of that tune is thumb on the downbeat, a significant departure from the pattern I'm focussing on in this thread. But the pattern needs to be used when it's useful and departed from when the arrangement so requires.

Onward!

posted 10-11-2001 10:43 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by frailerdude:
Banjer, actually CGCGCE is TWO strings off from Orkney, the latter being CGDGCD. The problem with the CGCGCE tuning is that it's a straight Open C, which means you're heaviliy limited to playing in the key of C. In Orkney you have equal access to the keys of C and G.

steve baughman

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Sorry. That was my mistake. gCGCD is the banjo tuning that is called double C. gCGCE is called open C, naturally. I often use it to play tunes in the key of C and have been practicing a few in that tuning with a fiddler recently so my mind was on it.

Steve

posted 10-12-2001 05:05 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Julian Ward:
Recently I saw a frailing guitarist who had shifted his top E sting to the 6th string position.
JW

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I've been considering putting on a high string. My preferred tunings would be gGCGCD and gCDGCD. Since getting a high g on a guitar is problematic and an a pretty much impossible, I guess it would mean installing RR spikes (toy ones!) or pinpoint capos. Anyone had experience with the pinpoints?

Steve

posted 10-12-2001 09:29 AM               

I'm skeptical, but I really should try it since the question has come up twice now. If anyone else tries it, please keep us posted on how it sounds.

posted 10-13-2001 01:35 PM               

Cons first, so the post can end on a good note. I'm not a luthier, but it seems that flipping strings might twist your guitar neck around like a strand of DNA.

Advice I got when I picked up a banjo was "don't play your banjo like a guitar". Would you be playing your guitar like a banjo after making those modifications?

On the pro side, however, you could be on to some pretty unique stuff.

As Frailerdude said, this frailing on guitar is wide open. What Frailerdude and Banjer do with this technique might be two entirely different things, but one isn't necessarily more important than the other.

There are five basic elements of music: Melody, Harmony, Rythm, Tone and Form.

Frailerdude is addressing the idea of rythm.

Banjer is addressing the idea of tone.