 |
|
|
     
|
| |
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: Dished Sanding Forms?
|
Doug Dalrymple
Member
|
posted 08-15-2004 02:37 AM
   
I am looking for a way to make your own dished sanding forms of the type used to sand the sides of a guitar body? They shape the specific arch of the back or top before gluing them on?I have seen several for sale I am wondering if there is a way to make your own. LMI calls them Hollow Forms. |
Mario Proulx
Member
|
posted 08-15-2004 08:27 AM
They're quite easy enough to make.All you need is a set of rails cut to the radius you want, and set them in a cradle of some kind, that a router will run in(I can dig up a photo of mine if you need to see one). Drill a 1/4" hole in the center of your dish-to-be, and put a pin through that hole and into your workbench, so that the dish will rotate. Fix the rail jig over this mess, and set the router(any bit will do, by the way) so that the bit just touches the dish at its outer edges. Make a pass, rotate the dish slightly, and make another pass. repeat until you have a hollow dish! It is a very messy operation, and if you don't have excellent dust collection, do this outdoors, please. Once you have the rails made up, it only takes about 20-25 minutes to make a dish.
Mario |
Rick Turner
Member
|
posted 08-15-2004 11:42 AM
If you value your time, just buy some. They're not that expensive. I've learned only to build jigs and fixtures that I cannot buy. My time is more valuable as a guitar maker than as a "reinvent the wheel" toolmaker. If this is a hobby, well then toolmaking can be a lot of fun...but if it's a profession, think of your time as being worth at least $50.00 per hour in your shop. |
Rick Turner
Member
|
posted 08-15-2004 02:11 PM
Check this site out:
http://www.guitarjigs.com/ $85.00 for a hollow form with 50 grit sandpaper on it. Plus shipping, of course. Looks like good stuff here. |
dwatwood
Member
|
posted 08-15-2004 08:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Doug Dalrymple:
I have seen several for sale I am wondering if there is a way to make your own.
I agree with Rick. Unless I'm trying to come up with a new jig, I find it much easier to buy them then spend time in design, trial, etc. Be sure and check out Mark Kett's jigs at Guitar Jigs as they are definitely top notch. I have also purchased quality radius dish sets off of ebay for a reasonable price. Adhesive sanding paper which will fit the dishes for radiusing the top and back body profile can be purchased from Industrial Abrasives. If you line the sandpaper dishes with butchers paper, you can still use them for brace gluing.
Don |
Mario Proulx
Member
|
posted 08-15-2004 10:30 PM
Rick, I agree that it's quite often more economical, in the real sense, to buy jigs, but like I said, it takes about 20-25 minutes to route them out. Include setup time, and I can do two an hour, easy.At $85 per dish, that's like making $170/hr. It only took me about 30 minutes to make the rail jig, so even if I only ever made one, I'm still pocketing $85/hr. Include shipping to where I'm at, and we almost double the costs, BTW, so it makes even more sense to make 'em. I have 3 dishes of each of two different radii, for 6 total. Include shipping and US dollar exchage, and I would be looking at $1000 CDN, instead of the $23 it cost in raw material. Sometimes, ya just gotta roll your own..... |
Rick Turner
Member
|
posted 08-16-2004 12:31 PM
Mario, let's get this straight...that's a trip to the lumber yard for a sheet of MDF, buying the MDF (that's $$$ or loonies out of pocket), bringing it back to the shop, cutting it up on the table saw, accurately circle cutting it first on the band saw and then cleaning up with a trammel router, making an accurate jig for the arc, and setting that whole jig up, and then carving and sanding the concave surface in 25 minutes? I don't think so, buster! And if you can do all that that fast, would you like a job down here in sunny California?This reminds me of the enless discussions elsewhere about making your own drum sanders, etc. There are certain cases where the value of what you can build is so high that is makes sense. And there are interesting kits and plans for making some really nice tools...even CNC machines, but for this...well I wouldn't bother, but if it rings your chimes, fine. Hey, there are luthiers out there who make all their own tools as a kind of religious pennance or something. |
JamesIrwin
Member
|
posted 08-16-2004 01:44 PM
I paid Mark a visit in Port Perry Ont.a few months ago. Purchased a couple of dishes. Great fellow. Excellent set up. He is becoming so popular with his Jigs line , he said he had to slow down building, although he is increasing his production again soon. BTW.........has anyone tried his binding jig. I think I remember Kathy Wingert was going to give it a try.....any feed-back. |
Mario Proulx
Member
|
posted 08-16-2004 02:58 PM
Rick, I'm not kidding, nor exaggerating. 20-25 minutes, tops.As for the trip to the lumber yard, well, I always have MDF on hand for jigs, and my neighbor happens to be a cabinet maker, and also happens to be my older brother, so sheet goods are never far away <bg> Most of my 'dishes' are still square, BTW. Ripping a sheet of MDF on the old Unisaw into 24 inch square pieces doesn't take but a couple minutes. And I don't bother sanding them smooth after routing. Most are lined with sandpaper, and the others are lined with a few sheets of newspaper(when you get glue or anything on them, change the paper). I still believe I pocketed nearly $1000 in value by making my own. As for the job offer, well, I'd have to immigrate. Y'all wanna sponsor me? Mario |
Paul Hostetter
Member
|
posted 08-16-2004 04:20 PM
In a recent issue of American Lutherie, there's a photo of a guy using a radiused sanding bowl mounted on an electric potter's wheel, which I thought was a marvelous innovation. Those things have torque to spare. |
roynoble
Member
|
posted 08-16-2004 04:29 PM
I'm the guy who makes the hollow forms LMI sells. I send them about 48 every couple of months. In 1991 I got involved with making myself some really accurate forms, and by the time I was done I had invested about 1000.00 and a mont's time, so I sent LMI a sample to try and recover some of my investment. It was a good move-over the years i've made several thousand of them. My machine has evolved over the years. Today it has power feed, automatic shut off and a vacuum clamping system. I just wish I had a brother because living out here in the desert my suppliers are limited. I buy my MDF at Lowe's (marganilly better than Home Depot, my other choice),. I've been going to them every couple of months with exactly the same order: 6 sheets of 5/8 MDF cut into 2 x 2 foot squares, and every time they give me grief, this time it's "our saw is broken call back in about a week". They know I will because they make me pay in advance.
I have a data sheet with all the relevant geometrical relationships concerning hollow forms, complete with the symbols to program a computer in BASIC. This discussion has inspired me to publish this data on my website-any day now.
|
Doug Dalrymple
Member
|
posted 08-16-2004 05:54 PM
First of all I would like all of the responders, you have provided a lot of possibilities and information.Rick, I appreciate and understand your point about the cost of labor. Unfortunately, at this point in time, I have more time than money. Thanks again for all of the input Doug |
Peter Woodman
Member
|
posted 08-17-2004 06:03 AM
James, I've used Mark's binding jig on the last couple of guitars I made. It's not idiot-proof - you have to be careful to present the body to the cutter without twisting it at all - but it works very well and I like it a lot. I always used to dread the binding stage but now I get very clean results.The Ribbecke-style ones with the moving carriage for the body are probably even better but I just don't have the workshop space to use one. |
Tim McKnight
Member
|
posted 08-17-2004 07:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Hostetter:
In a recent issue of American Lutherie, there's a photo of a guy using a radiused sanding bowl mounted on an electric potter's wheel, which I thought was a marvelous innovation. Those things have torque to spare.
Hi Paul: I recently wrote an article for the ASIA magazine showing how to construct a motorized rimset sander using hollow form dishes. I had originally mounted my dish to a potters wheel but later built a free standing unit. I shared the credit with Mario as I borrowed some ideas from his bench mounted sander. After you use one manually it's not long until the mental engineering wheels start turning. [This message has been edited by Tim McKnight (edited 08-17-2004).] |
Paul Hostetter
Member
|
posted 08-17-2004 10:04 PM
American Lutherie? Guitarmaker? Oh dear! I put you (unattributed too) in the wrong magazine - please forgive me!  |
Contact Us | Acoustic Guitar Central
Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.45c
|
|
|
|
|
|
