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Author
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Topic: submerged wood
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giannaviolins
Member
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posted 07-08-2004 05:01 AM
   
Interesting. I spent an evening listening to Nagyvary talk, looking at a couple of violins, and hearing them played. They seemed just fine for the 2d row. Decent orchestral quality violins for regional orchestras. Like about 1,000,000 others. He is indeed a compelling speaker. I'm not convinced he knows anything about making a violin.My impression on handling a few of the nice old Italians backed up by the relatively few measurements I've stockpiled is that the Stradivaris are very very light. Very light. Lighter than I can make or than the other good modern violins I've weighed. Makes me wonder if they selected light wood or if the 10 grams left during aging! Some are light because there's less wood. I have a Milanollo poster (Strad violin) showing very thin graduations. The whole wood density and stiffness aspect of the old violins seems less investigated than I would have thought. I've worked a little with submerged wood. It seems to be wood. Feels a little soapy. I'm not going to go out of my way to get some. On the soluable plant fiber, I use an organic ground with gum arabic and egg white. This clearly and quite distinctly impacts the sound. It isn't a secret, it is just a good ground! The acoustic effect isn't all that subtle and is good. I think I'd use it on a guitar if I ever made one. |
Matt Hayden
Member
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posted 07-12-2004 11:53 AM
On the subject of submerged wood -- I had a small piece of figured maple that was from a submerged tree, and it worked just fine. Nice stuff. Cost a mint compared with other figured maple. Didn't look that different, but it made a nice headstock overlay and some accent pieces. mh |
Doug Dalrymple
Member
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posted 08-15-2004 02:28 AM
Anthony Dalton,Can you email me I have a question about your post on this topic that I would rather not post. My email is in my profile. Thanks. Doug |
Michael Darnton
Member
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posted 08-15-2004 05:46 AM
How could I have missed this thread????? I guess I was out of town. My only comment would be that if he had discovered the "secret", he wouldn't have rejected it for another a couple of years later, then that one for another a couple of years later, etc., on down the line. The more "secrets" he turns up and discards, the less likely the whole thing becomes.There's LOTS more that could be said on this topic. . . |
J.H.Kinnaird
Member
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posted 08-15-2004 11:14 AM
I have nothing to add to the violin branch of this discussion, but I did just invest in a piece of spruce top wood that supposedly used to be a part of a piling supporting a pier on the Pacific coast. The pier was torn down, the piling sold for various things, including tops for upright basses. The leftovers were cut up for guitar tops. It looks like real good light, stiff stuff. I'll report any extraordinary results. |
Cjsolo
Member
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posted 08-16-2004 02:25 PM
It seems to me that the more secrets he discovers, uncovers or rediscovers, the longer his name stays in the spotlight. Sounds to me like he's capitalizing on the "you can fool some of the people all of the time" concept. |
Paul Hostetter
Member
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posted 08-16-2004 04:28 PM
Bingo!And I'm sorry Michael didn't get in on this sooner! |
roynoble
Member
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posted 08-16-2004 07:44 PM
An old master violin maker (Leroy Geiger) once told me that he believed the old Italian masters treated their instruments with a solution of "gum of Mastic" and alcohol just prior to finishing. As the finish wears away the wood is supposed to wear clean. Anyone ever heard of this? |
Frank Ford
Moderator
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posted 08-16-2004 09:42 PM
One of the most neglected observations about ol' Tony Stradivari was that he was a MASTER of marketing. 'nuff said. . .As with all things, follow the $$$ - there's your answer! |
Mario Proulx
Member
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posted 08-16-2004 10:30 PM
Naw! Y'all got it wrong.The real secret was that he rubbed his instruments with bear fat before finishing them. And it was the fat of 7 year old male bears, too. And it was used "fresh". And I walked 5 miles to school every morning. Up hill, both ways. Uh huh. Yup....
<long time followers of these silly threads regarding 'Ol Strad's secrets will recognize the above>
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Paul Hostetter
Member
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posted 08-16-2004 11:06 PM
Hearing of something is guarantee of absolutely nothing. Gum mastic, or sometimes just mastic, is a resin and a common ingredient of many old (and current) spirit (alcohol-based) varnishes. I don’t think it’s a real common treatment of wood, per se, but I suppose you could use it in alcohol as a wash coat of some sort, with seedlac or somesuch. Why not? |
Michael Darnton
Member
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posted 08-17-2004 04:50 AM
I used mastic as a ground for a while. It's very problematic to use by itself (subsequent coats of anything else you put on it redissolve it instantly, making a bit of a mess, and I'm absolutely sure it's not the thing Tony used., for a number of other reasons as well.I've heard so many suggestions from people who "know" what the Cremonese did. None of those people seem to be able to do it themselves, though. :-) Only someone who doesn't know the instruments well could attribute it to marketing, though I'm sure Tony was good at that, too. [This message has been edited by Michael Darnton (edited 08-17-2004).] |
