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Author
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Topic: Acoustic Bass Guitars
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epaul
Member
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posted 08-09-2004 10:36 AM
   
Do acoustic bass guitars have decent volume acoustically (or do they need to be plugged in to be heard in an acoustic bluegrass ensemble)?I am currently furnishing the bass line for my nascent bluegrass band by thumbpicking an alternating bass with my (fairly loud) six string. There is another guitarist (better than me) who does flatpick rhythm and lead breaks. I am happy just chunking out a steady bass, with simple chinkas and pattern picking, in an attempt to keep the banjo player from racing off ahead of everyone else. The thought of an acoustic bass guitar occurred to me. A cheap one, like a D1 Martin or something. Are these things as easy to hear acoustically in an ensemble as a good six string hitting an alternating bass with a stiff thumbpick? Or are they only intended to provide some acoustic feedback to the player, and need to amplified to be heard by an audience (and banjo player)?
Paul
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thewallylama
Member
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posted 08-09-2004 10:55 AM
Acoustic bass guitars have a nice sound for an acoustic ensemble, but I'm quite sure the sound will be lost without an amp. And if you have a banjo, forget it! You might sense some bottom end, and maybe as the player you could hear it enough to give you some "acoustic feedback", but I don't think the band or the audience would hear too much cutting through the other sounds. But... you wouldn't need too much of an amp if everybody else is unplugged--a little practice amp would do. --Wally |
bassguy
Member
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posted 08-09-2004 11:45 AM
My opinion: The only good-sounding ones I have heard are the Martins and Taylors. But even those are not very loud. If you play with an ensemble, you will want to amplify it. I recently heard a guitar trio at a local coffee shop. There were two acoustic guitars and one acoustic bass guitar, all unplugged. You couldn't hear anything from the bassist except the slap of the strings against the frets as he tried in vain to bang hard enough on the strings to be heard. They look cool though! Guy |
SpruceApple
Member
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posted 08-09-2004 11:46 AM
Paul,I don't have any experience or comments to offer you regarding bluegrass - never been there, never done that. I do have a little experience with acoustic basses, based on an acoustic trio in which I play. Played acoustically, they leave much to be desired - the primary issue being volume. It is just not possible to generate volume sufficient for everyone to hear in a group setting, even for practicing. When accompanying even a single six string, the acoustic bassist must have a very heavy-handed attack to be heard. I have been told that resonator acoustic basses generate much more volume, but I haven't played nor heard one. Plugged in, I have found them to have a pleasing tone, somewhere between an upright and a solid body bass. The string gauges I have seen are .045, .055, .075, .095, phosphor bronze, but there are other options available. My experience is with a Fender BG-29,the Olympia and Tacoma models, Martin B-1, and an Ibanez model. Most acoustic basses have a very large and deep body, which combined with a 34" scale length can provide some ergonomic challenges in the playing. Interestingly, the Fender has a smaller, thinner body and a 30" scale yet still puts out a volume level comparable to the others. The biggest challenge I have found when plugged in is managing feedback. At a few indoor gigs for 100 or so people we had problems achieving adequate sound levels without some feedback. I'm not saying that this issue can't be managed properly, but for our acoustic trio it became easier to switch to a semi-hollow body bass that still fits our style (not bluegrass) and doesn't feed back. YMMV. Best wishes... Patrick |
Hoser Rob
Member
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posted 08-09-2004 11:51 AM
Have you ever seen those mariachi bands (in movies if you're a Canuck like me)? That thing that looks like a cello with a strap is the bass. That's about the size an acoustic bass would have to be to produce a low E with any authority.That said, I still think they sound pretty cool. They seemed to have their day in the 80's, as I remember, but the fact they still need an amp does, IMO, detract from their value. |
Rick Turner
Member
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posted 08-09-2004 12:01 PM
I, too, am of the opinion that the only acoustic bass guitars that work are guitarrons, and you better be a tough SOB with walnut cracking fingers to play one.This is why I gave up and designed a semi-hollow "amplicoustic" to sound acoustic...plugged in and loud enough to really work. |
rainsong
Member
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posted 08-09-2004 01:48 PM
I play in an acoustic duo w/ an acoustic bass player. Impossible to be heard unplugged, really cool sound plugged straight into the PA. |
KAT
Member
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posted 08-09-2004 04:22 PM
EP;
Steven King (Taylor clinician) uses some black magic box to "lower" his two bottom strings. Would that be of any help?
MF's recent catalog shows a Dean acoustic bass for $149.99...tempting.
KAT[This message has been edited by KAT (edited 08-09-2004).] |
Chak Aw
Member
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posted 08-09-2004 07:48 PM
Paul,
You're going to have to plug in. I played a few and while cool for a quieter, intimate setting, when you're up against a booming rhythm guitar and banjo, you're not going to be heard without amplification.Chak |
jdwxly
Member
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posted 08-09-2004 08:51 PM
I played a Kramer Ferrington acoustic bass in a small worship setting. Played VERY hard with a pick, alongside an unplugged Yamaha dread, I could barely be heard by the other folks in the room. And the Ferrington was by far the loudest ABG I found when I went looking for one - I tried Fender, Dean, Hohner, Ovation, Taylor, Tacoma and Martin as well.The bottom line is that you'll need to plug it in. They do have a neat sound when plugged in, though. In the end, I found it easier to just use my normal bass and a small combo amp. |
Kipper
Member
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posted 08-10-2004 01:36 AM
I've often been temped by the acoustic bass myself. Haveing read the overall response of "gotta' plug it in," I guess my quandry is 'then why did you choose acoustic?' Is the sound, once plugged in, different enough from an electric bass or is is an astetic choice? I may be on my way to a feigned shopping trip to try one out. Kipper |
LAPetrarca
Member
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posted 08-10-2004 05:59 AM
I play a Fender BG-29N and, if I'm playing with any more than 2 acoustic guitars, I have to plug in. I use a small Crate 35w practice amp with a "contour" circuit and it sounds VERY good through it. You don't necessarily need alot of power, just a little boost.Someone earlier described the sound of an acoustic bass as being somewhere between that of a double-bass and an electric bass. That's exactly how I describe the sound to others as well. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! |
DaveWendler
Member
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posted 08-10-2004 06:54 AM
The only acoustic bass I've ever heard that was strong enough is the real thing...even a guitarron doesn't have THAT much carrying power; even in a mariachi setting, it's usually only the musicians themselves that can actually hear it. A string bass is really the only truly acoustic alternative for a bluegrass act, particularly if it's resting on a wood floor...there's enough power there to make the floor vibrate...which adds to the "feel", if not the volume. I'm with Rick on this....you're better off with an instrument designed to be amplified, yet retain the dynamic sensibility(ie, percussiveness of the attack transient) required for "acoustic" music. Here's a recording of my bass offering, in an old timey country(bluegrass?) context. electroCoustic trio |
millring
Member
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posted 08-10-2004 08:15 AM
apologies to Nick Forester, but THIS is a bluegrass bass. Accept no substitutes.
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Paul Hostetter
Member
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posted 08-10-2004 12:57 PM
The only acoustic bass guitars I have seen that really worked were ones used in Portuguese fado bands, and they’re really rare. I’ve seen two in the flesh in my life. They’re like a giant regular steelstring flattop, six strings tuned an octave lower and attached to a glued bridge. Unlike the guitarrón, which I agree with Rick is the only truly kick-butt bass guitar you’re likely to find, the violão baixo has a shallow body, maybe 3" deep, but with a big surface area and great clarity and projection. Just imagine a double-size Martin 000 (000000-18 anyone?) that wasn’t made correspondingly deeper. The thin body also makes the big Portuguese jobs easy to hold and play.The Earthwoods and Kleins all seemed to be so cavernous that their sound got dissipated before ever getting out. I will have to say that, upon many opportunities to experience both string bass and guitarrón, the latter is really far louder and clearer, not to mention more mobile, but as Rick also points out, the requisite playing technique is only available to a few maniacs with incredibly powerful callused hands and an immunity to pain. All notes, for example, are pinched pairs of octaves, the thing is tuned in straight fourths. Ouf. A real man’s instrument.
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