posted 05-13-2004 05:56 AM               

I had my tech install the M1 and #54 on the ring and tip of the supplied stereo endpin jack. I also got a Power Plug that can send out either a summed mono signal or a stereo signal.

The tech only had an electric guitar amp so that's all I was able to test it through and the combination sounded better than the #54 by itself. Still, that wasn't a fair way to judge the pickups. Unfortunately, I don't have an acoustic amp myself so I couldn't do any testing at home. I played the guitar at an open mic tonight and although the sound was ok, it still wasn't that great. Strangely enough, the #54 signal by itself sounded better here. The combination sounded a little distorted to my ears. Although it was going through a great amp (AER Alpha), I still don't think it was a great place to evaluate the pickups because I wasn't able to blend them and experiment. I will be heading to the local acoustic guitar shop to try out a bunch of acoustic amps and that should give me a better idea. I have a stereo Y cable so I'll be able to feed pickup signals separately into the channels of the various amps (AER, Marshall, Ashdown). I'll post another report then.

The way I see it, my options are to:
a) replace the Power Plug with a Stereo Blender from PUTW and blend the signals
b) take out the #54 and just use the M1 through a PADI

If I can blend the signals well at the music shop, I'll probably go with a). If not, then b)

posted 05-13-2004 12:40 PM               

The experiment with passively blending the M1 and #54 signals (before preamping) was a long shot, but I give you credit for giving it a try. I suspect that you'll be more pleased with blending the M1 and #54 signals *after* each signal has been individually preamped.

I suspect that the tone controls, on the amps that you'll be trying out, will be helpful in getting the tone that you're after. Also, if there's a phase inversion switch on one of the signal channels, you'll want to try both switch positions to see which results in the best sounding blend.

Good luck with your amp/pickup testing. I'm looking forward to reading about your further adventures in acoustic guitar amplification.

posted 05-15-2004 05:38 PM               

OK. Got that out of my system. I feel better now.

How does the M1 sound if you just plug it into the PA and play?

posted 05-16-2004 01:12 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by tim farney:
How does the M1 sound if you just plug it into the PA and play?

Tim

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I know EXACTLY how you feel, Tim! At the open mic, the M1 went into an AER Alpha and that was fed into a PA. It sounded good but the high E and B strings sounded a little electric. I'm swapping the Power Plug for a the Stereo Blender from David Enke (so I can have either each pickup individually or a blend of both) and then I'm done with pickups.

For now, since the summed combination doesn't sound all that great, I'll just take a Y cable with me so I can use the pickups individually.

posted 05-16-2004 02:02 PM               

I use a Digitech Artist 2120 tube preamp in the video to get the near acoustic sound you will hear but the effects such as a good spatial chorus and delay/verb should not be overlooked to "reproduce" better acoustic sound from pickup systems.

the link for the video is: http://www.andromedan.com/movies/baggs1.wmv
for Macs: http://www.andromedan.com/movies/baggs1.mpg

More to come

Doug

posted 05-16-2004 03:10 PM               

I look forward to reading your review. The Sunrise review was pretty good.

I'm hesitant about getting the Solstice mainly because of portability issues in terms of size and also how it's non battery-powered. I'm in Australia and currently, I'm playing at a weekly open mic where you turn up, plug in and play. I like the PUTW Power Blender because I can adjust the mix from my guitar, it's battery powered and it will send a mono signal out. I know that I'll give up any eq-ing from there but for my current needs and this context, I think it should work.

I'll head down to the music shop again this weekend and try experimenting with the eq on the amps.

I'm not expecting the pickup to exactly reproduce the sound of the guitar but if I can get the sound you got from the M1 in the demo, I'll be extremely happy and completely satisfied.

Thanks for the tips, Doug, and showing me what's possible.

posted 05-17-2004 06:40 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by fingerpick:

I use a Digitech Artist 2120 tube preamp in the video to get the near acoustic sound you will hear but the effects such as a good spatial chorus and delay/verb should not be overlooked to "reproduce" better acoustic sound from pickup systems.

---

OK, that was the best sounding demo of the M1 I have ever heard. Would you care to elaborate on exactly how that was recorded?

Matt

posted 05-17-2004 08:14 PM               

I do and will go into much more specific detail at Fingerpick Mag, but in general the use of effects, which can spread out the time and position the sound arrives in the spectrum. Much like the sound you hear when playing an acoustic that comes from many different locations and surfaces of the instrument. The quad chorus, reverbs, and delays I used in the Digitech box have a nearly infinite number of timing and spatial orientations. Used subtley this gives one the impression of space and retards attack. to varying degrees much like an acoustic box. The rackmount Digitech Valve (tube)2120 Artist I used is no longer in production but they are sending us one that has similar effects modules so we can experiment with a unit that others can get. The new ones area lot less expensive too.

Most pickups sample small areas of the instrument, the mag being a single point source though greatly improved with the body sensing capabilities of the M1 and even the Sunrise. The point being, the attack and release with pickups is much more immediate and uniform than a miked acoustic. USTs are pretty immediate as well and sample a relatively small part of the instrument. ST's sample more but can be prone to feedback at realistic, larger room or louder performance volume levels. All can be helped dramatically by EQ and effect enhancment by the purchase of a 2-3 hundred dollar multi-effect preamp.

Losing some midrange (250 Hz to 1Khz) and boosting highs perhaps a little and lows quite a bit helps and is important especially in a mag and even in a UST. Your graphic EQ looks like a smile. And the sound you hear in the video would be even more acoustically enhanced when using speakers with wide dispersion horns - ie PA's rather than most guitar amps. In other words the sound you hear in the video would be even more dramatic through proper sound reinforcement.

Recording is almost always the worst case scenario (except for feedback) for acoustic pickups.

Try your guitar and pickup with some multi-effect preamps, looking at those that have multiple channel choruses with spatial and timing adjustments, as well as reverbs and delays with similar control of these parameters. Subtle use of these kinds of tools can make dramatic improvements in your "acoustic" sound. There were probably 100 parameter selection/tweaks in setting up the Digitech for the M1 recording. Took about 15 minutes but I only had to do it once because I saved the patch.

More to come

Doug

posted 05-18-2004 06:18 AM               

I have to say I liked your sound enough to at least consider the extra cost and effort to set up an M1 rig.

Is anyone else getting this kind of sound out of the M1 live? If so, what are you using? Sidheguitarist? Sweet Tyrone?

posted 05-18-2004 11:06 AM               

I've done a little recording of the M1, using just the Baggs PADI preamp for some tone shaping and gain. I didn't come anywhere close to Doug's lovely tone, although the M1 *is* definitely the best sounding mag pickup that I've tried.

I'd guess that Sidheguitarist, with his Demeter Tube DI, or Takamine's Mike Markure, with his "Cool Tube" preamp, are getting closer to Doug's results.

Doug,

In case you're not aware of it, I believe that your last name is spelled wrong in the video's streaming subtitle.

FWIW, I like the M1 recording better (sound-wise) than the Sunrise recording. In fact, the M1 recording is *so* good that I wouldn't mind buying the extra gear and educating myself on the effects tweaks - if only the M1 was compatable with all of my playing styles. Its obviously a great pickup for some folks.