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Author
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Topic: Greven guitars - owners/opinions?
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JED47
Member
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posted 02-29-2004 04:23 PM
   
John has taken on an apprentice to help him with his growing backlog. His wait list is about 1 year out now.
Stefan Grossman is expecting 2 Prairie State guitars from John Greven in the near future. These will be posted on his website and will be for sale.
Below are a couple links to dealers that carry Greven guitars. www.acousticaxis.com/prod03.htm www.guitargal.com/greven.html |
LittleBrother
Member
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posted 02-29-2004 07:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Hackman:
John is known to be a very
efficient builder, but I question the figure 1500.
I'm only telling you what he said when we all met at Mike Crixell's house for a jam in Austin. The number was around 1475 at that time. Cut that in half and it is still amazing. If you question it then you maybe should just ask John and question it that way. If you find out any different come back and let us know. Best Regards  |
rforman15
Member
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posted 02-29-2004 08:05 PM
So more is better??, could be; more could be less (worse) as well. Greven aside, an average luthier could make a lot of guitars and still be average, another someone with a special gift could make very few and beat the guy who made a whole lot more. Usually doesn't work that way in life, but such scenarios do exist. So in other words, I wouldn't judge a guitar builder's quality based on the number of guitars that builder has built. Further, and as was perhaps suggested above, more could lead to a situation where the quality slides. This is not about Greven, but rather to question some assumptions that are being made. [This message has been edited by rforman15 (edited 02-29-2004).] |
Peter Hackman
Member
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posted 03-01-2004 02:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by LittleBrother:
I'm only telling you what he said when we all met at Mike Crixell's house for a jam in Austin. The number was around 1475 at that time. Cut that in half and it is still amazing. If you question it then you maybe should just ask John and question it that way. If you find out any different come back and let us know. Best Regards
It's not *that* important. I thought
it was only a round-off error. 600 guitars
in little more than 10 years is an amazing
feat. Especially, since John has developed
at least two new models since '93. But, of course, in the early '90s
he was French polishing. |
rforman15
Member
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posted 03-01-2004 05:48 AM
There you go again. Just by nature that someone made 600 guitars in ten years means nothing. They could all be lousy. How about ten great guitars in ten years. I would hardly bragg about output as it just does not seem connected with quality and in fact seem almost counter to quality. In Greven's case there is quality, but might the quality have been even better had he cut his production in half. Again, this is not about Greven, but rather questioning the assumption that more is better and that more is desirable. |
Tim O'Neill
Member
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posted 03-01-2004 07:59 AM
John keeps his prices in a more affordable range. I guess that the way that he manages to do that and still make a living is by making more guitars than some of the boutique makers. In contrast, Jeff Traugott produces something like 10-12 guitars a year. From the couple Traugotts that I've seen, I would guess that they're all pretty close to perfection. They also cost more than $20,000 each.It would make sense that John might be sacrificing something in final quality in order to produce so many guitars so fast. There were some very small signs of that in the Prairie State that I got from John in November. For example, the inlays on the headstock were absolutely beautiful, while the fretboard inlays were asymmetrical in shape, with small but noticeable gaps between the shell and the ebony. The overall look of the guitar is fantastic, but there were a few indications like this that he might have been rushing (e.g., I got a different neck profile and bridge than I had asked for, in writing, several times). And I know that the actual construction period for my guitar was less than two months out of the year that I waited for the guitar. The most important thing to me is that the guitar sounds great. Also, John is a really nice guy and he stands behind his work. He is very sincere about making the customer happy with the guitar that they order. For someone who wanted a great sounding handmade guitar at a reasonable price, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Greven. But if you want a guitar that looks as perfect as a Traugott, a Claxton, a Ryan or even a Collings, there is a chance that you might be a litle disappointed with a Greven. To put it in perspective, if a Ryan is 100% for fit and finish, I'm guessing that a typical Greven might be 90-95%. Not bad at all, especially if the guitar sounds great. But I'm guessing that not everyone would be happy with that. This isn't meant as a knock on John in any way. I'm a big fan of his work. And my evaluation is just based on my guitar and one that another fellow ordered at around the same time, when Greven was just beginning to reach the height of his new busy period. My limited experience might not be completely representative. |
jgreven
Member
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posted 03-01-2004 08:41 AM
Just for the record, my total production to date is NOT in excess of 1400 guitars, it is only 1285 and that includes not just guitars but every instrument I have made since 1963. There are several hundred banjos in that number as well. I make an average of 50 guitars in a year, many of them going overseas (Japan mostly). I looked over my invoices for the last 20 odd years and discovered that there are about 400 of my guitars in the land of the rising sun.I'm a bit prolific, but not THAT prolific.
John |
satchel
Member
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posted 03-01-2004 11:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by spock:
I would appreciate some reviews from those who own or have owned a Greven guitar, particularly the smaller OM and similarly sized models for fingerpicking. Also, what is a decent price for a used Greven (non-Brazilian)in excellent condition? Thanks, Tim
I've played (and consider myself fortunate to do so!!) @ 6 grevens. IMO, they are worth twice what John sells them for. Greven's sound is crunchy vintage, with an emphasis on the fundamental note. The sustain enhances the fundamental, rather than the other way around. I saw nothing in any of the finish details that indicated guitars were 'rushed thru'. My impression was that the pictures you see do not do his guitars justice! |
spock
Member
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posted 03-01-2004 05:05 PM
Thank you all for the feedback - I do appreciate it. I ran across a used Greven OM-12 on-line this weekend - which is the style I'm looking for - but it sold by the time I inquired about it. Given the wait list and price for new Grevens, I'm going to keep looking for a newer used model in hopes of getting one a little sooner and saving a little bit of money at the same time. Granted, there do not appear to many used Grevens in the marketplace, which means I may be waiting a while anyway, but it also indicates that most folks who have them don't want to part with them - always a good sign in my book. |
kingofdogs1950
Member
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posted 03-01-2004 05:52 PM
Is this the OM12 you found?
(scroll down) http://www.artichokemusic.com/used%5Finstruments/ Seems like a reasonable price to me.
Mark |
spock
Member
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posted 03-01-2004 06:01 PM
Mark, Yup, that's the one- someone else grabbed it before I could get my hands on it. Oh well - can't win them all. Tim |
rforman15
Member
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posted 03-01-2004 06:07 PM
That Greven looks more like one of his F model guitars, but I could be wrong? |
kingofdogs1950
Member
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posted 03-01-2004 06:17 PM
Looks like an OM12 to me. If fact on closer inspection it looks exactly like the guitar John sent me to try out. Humm... I wonder if it is the same guitar? His sunburst looks a lot better in person and the lacewood is amazing wood.
Humm...
Mark[This message has been edited by kingofdogs1950 (edited 03-01-2004).] |
Cosmic Wonder
Member
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posted 03-01-2004 07:05 PM
KingsofDogs, are you in the movie industry in CA? If so that is the same guitar I played in the store (Artichoke) a couple of weeks ago and posted about here. It is a very nice guitar, and that shaded sunburst is beautiful. If I had the cash, I would have brought it home.
Mike |
kingofdogs1950
Member
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posted 03-02-2004 04:23 AM
Mike - I didn't know this was the Greven you played. Now I am going to have to ask John if it actually is the one I had on loan for about a week.
Movie biz in CA? Whoa... I work in cancer research (epidemiology)in Houston. Think of the 'gloved finger'and you will know what we are studying...
Happy Tunes,
Mark[This message has been edited by kingofdogs1950 (edited 03-02-2004).] |
