posted 02-27-2003 09:28 AM               

I expect to spend less then a grand, use it exclusively for home recording, but like the option of using a mike and getting the guitar-like sound out of it or plugging it in.

So the acoustic volume thing is not an issue (though I will point out there is a new non-wood resin acoustic bass guitar out there that is actually suppose to be loud enough, but way out of my price range).

I must admit I just like the idea of staying acoustic in principal, even if I am going through a pickup sometimes.

posted 02-27-2003 10:33 AM               

We heard this instrument being played in a full tilt mariachi context....in the bar under the bullring in Cancun. Three trumpets, two fiddles, a guitar and the small guitar(I forget what that one is called, about the size of a 5 sized Martin). In addition, a family of six or seven was there celebrating their father's 90th birthday(he was a hoot, btw)...singing as loud as you could imagine....the bass had no problems being heard, supporting the other instruments and cacaphony of vocalists.

The neck on this thing was only about 12" long, and did use very colorful nylon strings....other than that, very rough craftsmanship compared to American standards. Playing the Mexican polka style, simple roots and fifths, it really excelled...BUT, the way the player manhandled the instrument, I think it would be tough to do a reasonable walking line on it.

I didn't notice any unusual frequency responses(ie, one note louder than the rest) from the guitarron, unlike EVERY ABG I've ever played...so I have to agree with Rick, there just isn't much out there as far as a REAL acoustic bass other than the doghouse type that cuts it. At least for covering all modern styles, anyway. For ABG's...the body is too small, the top too soft, just to get the volume out, and that leads to a huge, narrow, frequency response bump.

Given the need for an instrument that can play easily, is ergonomically easy to deal with, and accepting the fact that you WILL need amplification, led me also to try to find that "sound" in a fretless "electric" instrument.

Dave

electroCoustic bass mp3's- New Age 5(doubled)

Jazz 4

[This message has been edited by DaveWendler (edited 02-27-2003).]

posted 02-27-2003 11:59 AM               

In fact, some very knowledgeable people think that laminated (old Kay or new Englehardt) string basses (which tend to have a more immediate attack response to being plucked with fingers) do better for folk or jazz than solid wood basses (which are the preferred choice of orchestral players where playing with the bow constitutes 90% of a night's work.)

posted 02-27-2003 12:16 PM               

quote:

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I'm with Scott - you may be better off in the long run with a good electric, fretless or otherwise.

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posted 02-28-2003 06:27 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by LAPetrarca:
I play a Fender BG-29N. It works OK with one or two of my Martin playing friends but, more than that and it needs to be amped. Not much mind you. A Peavey Micro Bass or similar does the trick.

I have electrics as well but I like having an acoustic in my arsenal too. In fact lately, I play the acoustic more than anything. I doesn't have that upright sound but it's definitely smoother and less edgey than the electric.

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These are amazingly loud, considering the dreadnaught body size...I've considered buying one myself.

Again, folks, rather than complain that a ABG isn't as loud as your guitar, try playing your guitar a bit softer!

posted 02-28-2003 07:16 AM            

The Mexican Size-5 nylon-string you mention is called a requinto - I understand that, like the Martin 5 in its original incarnation, it's tuned anywhere between a third and a fifth higher than standard, with fourth-higher tuning (A-to-A, viz. Tacoma Papoose) being the most popular. I've seen a few of these around here in the NYC area in some of the mom-&-pop music stores, as well as record shops that cater to a predominantly Mexican clientele (BTW, I know of one that carries replacement guitarron strings as a stock item...!) under the Lone Star brand; if you're so inclined they could be had for $125-150 last time I looked...

Scott -

You're right about those old Kays - I played one in my high school pop band (nice old '40s blonde, with gen-u-ine gut strings to boot...!), sounded just fine for the sort of thing we used to do (easy-listening covers, early TJB), no problem being heard (and felt) against a BS&T/Chicago-type brass section, keys, electric guitar, and drums. I've also found that, as Rick Turner said, ABG's as a whole lack the "thump" factor - my old Guild B-50, the early EB Earthwoods (go find one...), and the Taylors and Tacomas, come close but only in a relatively intimate setting. Pursuant to this problem (and since you're both in the NYC area), you and Todd might wish to check out the new Carlo Robelli thinline upright that I saw back in November at the 48th Street Sam Ash; think acoustic version of the old Ampeg Baby Bass: full-scale/full-size but only half the depth of a traditional upright, sounds pretty good (not as gut-bucket deep-sounding as a full size, but equally projective and with far quicker response), and I believe that it's also available as an acoustic-electric - and if you have a problem with the fretless board you can always do the Edgar Mayer thing and install position markers...

Guy -

posted 02-28-2003 07:21 AM               

As Rick Turner said, the living room is where they are most useful--but there are those of us who do most of our playing in the living room. I am pretty serious about my music, but it is just a hobby for me. I don't use my ABG on stage, and it records well. (I record in the kitchen, though.) Great for road trips, too. I'd love to have a Renaissance bass, but I'd be hesitant to take it on a camping trip!

I think it's important to understand what an acoustic bass guitar is not. It isn't a P-bass, and it won't give you that punch in the solar plexus that an electric can. It isn't a double-bass, and it won't sound like one, and certainly won't be as loud. Mine is loud enough to back up one guitar, and has an acoustic sound that I like better than the electric sound. (Mine is an Aria. I use LaBella tapewounds, but I've also used the Rotosound Trubass 88 black nylons and Fender 9120 tapewounds.)

I've tried several ABGs, and admittedly many are garbage. Some of them respond like something built by a carpenter, not a luthier. Some sound much better, and it doesn't necessarily correlate to the price. I've tried some cheapies that sound better than some well-known mid-priced instruments. Haven't tried any of the high-dollar ones. Tacoma seems to get the most praise from the folks on the bass message boards, and isn't outrageously priced.

ABGs will never be tremendously popular, and that's okay. I like the acoustic sound, and it isn't practical for me to acquire, master, and find space for an upright. The acoustic bass guitar is what suits my needs best. As an amateur, I have the luxury of overlooking some limitations.

posted 02-28-2003 08:57 AM            

I've also had the forgetable Washburn AB20...I don't miss it. It was okay but was a lousy balance to hold.

My second favourite bass was a Fender Telecaster bass (yes there was such a thing) which was stolen 20 years ago. All the others (various P and J basses) were fine but didn't knock me out like the Godin.

I currently play a home made four string soon to be be converted to fretless, a Headway headless 4 string, and an Ernie Ball 5 string. The Ernie Ball is my first choice, killer pickup, and nice string spacing.

I haven't played Rick Turner's basses, but on reputation alone they'd be a safe alternative.

For acoustic music I'd still pick the Godin with or without frets. No contest.

posted 02-28-2003 09:44 AM               

Why doesn't someone manufactor a real acoustic bass guitar. Even if it wasn't full stand up sized these things could certainly get a lot bigger.

posted 02-28-2003 12:01 PM               

Unplugged, the cheaper ones were all pathetic. The Martin, Guild and Taylor were better, but still very unsatisfying. The only one that actually had nice tone and decent volume was a Tacoma. I'm not sure what model it was, but it went for just under $1000 with built in electronics. I remember thinking "now THAT sounds like a Real Bass."

If you're stuck on getting a true acoustic bass guitar, I would strongly recommend that you give the Tacoma a try.