posted 02-21-2003 04:15 PM               

There are Dalbergias from South America that don't look much like D. nigra at all, such as Honduran. That's the traditional marimba key rosewood and a great guitar wood. Cocobolo is Mexican Dalbergia which often looks like D. nigra (or even better) but it’s very different weightwise and tonally. And of those seven look-alike samples Roberto Gomes brought out to South Dakota, he said he’d only build with one by preference.

African blackwood is a Dalbergia and is most commonly known as African ebony. Indian rosewood is a Dalbergia and doesn’t look much like D. nigra or like Honduran. Some Dalbergias never grow past 3" in diameter, and you’ll never know what they do.

posted 02-21-2003 04:49 PM               

Oh, and one more thing: re.: Alpine Spruce, does this really refer to anything, Alpine means mountainous.

posted 02-21-2003 10:14 PM               

when I described the Tippin OMT as alpine spurce, it was because that was how it was advertised by Acoustic Roots and presumably Tippin himself. I assume it is one of the european spruces grown at alpine altitudes.

posted 02-24-2003 11:44 AM               

The site http://www.gropius.de/holzgal/tonhoelzer.html says, Picea excelsia (=picea abies??) covers northern and central Europe especially the alps.

posted 02-24-2003 11:15 PM               

Wait a minute here bub, what on earth is that supposed to mean? The Appenines and the central Alps are in the southern Alps. There’s no way Picea excelsa (not excelsia) grows as far north as Scandinavia unless someone imported it. Picea, the genus, covers most of the northern hemisphere. Different species are found in smaller locales.

The site http://www.gropius.de/holzgal/tonhoelzer.html says, Picea excelsia (=picea abies??) covers northern and central Europe especially the alps.

If they had been there, or were biologists, or knew the people who use that wood for the last, say, 500 years, they’d know better. You have found two very modest commercial sites that are not very good sources of information as far as I can see. They don't even have the right genus for cocobolo. They present the two main spruce species (there are others) located in "ganz nord, mittel und ost-Europa." Not particularly helpful there.

It is Picea excelsa, not excelsia. And that is a different species with a different range than Picea abies. Picea abies grows from the Alps north and east. Picea excelsa grows from the Alps south and east. They do overlap, or at least used to, in the Alps.

The thing about northern slope spruce, mentioned by you below, simply doesn’t hold up. All the great violins were made from Picea excelsa from the south slope. All of them. As were all the great Spanish and French and Viennese guitars. South slope. P. excelsa.

At last: I found an interview that was brought in the "American Lutherie", issue 66 of 2001. The interviewed person, the german luthier Sebastian Stenzel, says, he would prefer spruce from the northern rim of the Alpes. The reason, he states, is the longer and harder winter in this area, causing the trees to grow slower and devlop more strength and tighter grain.

Higher altitude does encourage these attributes, but face of the Alps has no effect. Quite a theory, but I know ten more luthiers in Germany who will refute this, because they know the best spruce comes from France, Italy, Yugoslavia, etc. I read Stenzel’s piece on tonewoods on his own site and he claims P. abies is *the* European spruce. He’s wrong. It works, sometimes, but it’s a very poor cousin to Picea excelsa. Ask Stradivari, ask Mozzani, ask the folks at Steinway and Bösendorfer, ask anyone in Madrid. You build houses from P. abies. You grind it up into the Süddeutsche Zeitung. You make musical instruments from Picea excelsa.

A parallel thread to this one is here: http://www.acousticguitar.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/012074.html and it, too, is much too long!

posted 02-25-2003 06:18 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Reginald Baker:
PS: I called Stradivari. He said I'm right!

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AND, Stradivari designed the Seagull S6 guitar. He decided the S6 should have its back and sides made ONLY from 100% Canadian plywood made on the SOUTH side of the plywood factory.

Canadian plywood made on the North side of the factory is okay for furniture, but NOT for a fine musical instrument. Oddly, when building guitars with Australian or Argentine plywood, the opposite is true.

This thread is (sometimes) about the "best-sounding" guitars folks have heard. Who else has a nomination for "best-sounding guitar"?

Al

posted 02-25-2003 12:20 PM               

I can't answer this question--there are too many great guitars out there which I have had the pleasure of playing.

One ringer: my teacher's 1962 D-28. Looks like a train wreck, but the tone! Omigosh.